Steve

Aug 29 2014, 03:53 PM

They literally can't win, Dialga and Palkia are the masters of time and space, Palkia can cut absolutely anything, if it's made of matter it can destroy it no PL stops that.

And Dialga can just stop time around them or leave them in a time loop.

Given that it's God, Arceus should be able to do all that alone and whatever Giratina does(I forget what it's thing is only that it's more powerful than the other two)


If they're all fighting at once, flawless victory.
Singularly, Palkia might be defeated if they get the drop on it but the rest solo.

Dialgia could just put them in a time loop until they starve to death or die of old age, the only reason they don't do crap like that is because Pokémon is for children, once that PG filter is off DBZ has no chance of winning.

ThePrinceOfSaiyajins

Aug 29 2014, 04:06 PM

Sorry, but the 4 Poke-deities are not on that level. Arceus was nearly done in by a few hundred Pokemon using Thunder, and he's the strongest of the 4. I can assure you that wouldn't phase a low-level Z character.

Steve

Aug 30 2014, 07:57 AM

ThePrinceOfSaiyajins

Aug 29 2014, 04:06 PM

Sorry, but the 4 Poke-deities are not on that level. Arceus was nearly done in by a few hundred Pokemon using Thunder, and he's the strongest of the 4. I can assure you that wouldn't phase a low-level Z character.

Yeah because it's a kids movie and they need some way to win, by stated feats their strength is measured not how inconsistent the show is.

Even Darkrai seems more powerful than Arceus in the show.

And in the games level 100 Arceus can be beaten by any well trained, half decent Pokémon which obviously just wouldn't happen.
Game logic and anime logic are sketchy, the lore around their power is what's legit.


As for why Palkia might lose, probably find it hard to contend with speed where Giratina can just fade away and Dialga can slow down everything but itself and Arceus should be able to do all of the above if it feels like it.

Palkia can teleport away or teleport everyone else away but if it's fighting all of DBZ at once it's probably going to get overwhelmed.


The only thing lore doesn't give us really is durability but hax powers lowers the need for that.

Steve

Aug 30 2014, 07:57 AM

ThePrinceOfSaiyajins

Aug 29 2014, 04:06 PM

Sorry, but the 4 Poke-deities are not on that level. Arceus was nearly done in by a few hundred Pokemon using Thunder, and he's the strongest of the 4. I can assure you that wouldn't phase a low-level Z character.

As for why Palkia might lose, probably find it hard to contend with speed where Giratina can just fade away and Dialga can slow down everything but itself and Arceus should be able to do all of the above if it feels like it.

Palkia can teleport away or teleport everyone else away but if it's fighting all of DBZ at once it's probably going to get overwhelmed.

TheACE

Aug 30 2014, 08:05 AM

Steve

Aug 30 2014, 07:57 AM

ThePrinceOfSaiyajins

Aug 29 2014, 04:06 PM

Sorry, but the 4 Poke-deities are not on that level. Arceus was nearly done in by a few hundred Pokemon using Thunder, and he's the strongest of the 4. I can assure you that wouldn't phase a low-level Z character.

Yeah because it's a kids movie and they need some way to win, by stated feats their strength is measured not how inconsistent the show is.

Even Darkrai seems more powerful than Arceus in the show.

And in the games level 100 Arceus can be beaten by any well trained, half decent Pokémon which obviously just wouldn't happen.
Game logic and anime logic are sketchy, the lore around their power is what's legit.


As for why Palkia might lose, probably find it hard to contend with speed where Giratina can just fade away and Dialga can slow down everything but itself and Arceus should be able to do all of the above if it feels like it.

Palkia can teleport away or teleport everyone else away but if it's fighting all of DBZ at once it's probably going to get overwhelmed.


The only thing lore doesn't give us really is durability but hax powers lowers the need for that.

Mild issue with your arguement about the lore, it falls pretty low on the totem pole.

Lore = statements < Feats < Plot < Prime Universe/Source material & Word of God. Since the source material for all Pokemon works comes back to the Games >/= Manga > Anime > etc. then the game actually takes presidence. Then any showing in the anime and expanded universe from there.

Pyrus

Aug 30 2014, 02:04 PM

TheACE

Aug 30 2014, 08:05 AM

Steve

Aug 30 2014, 07:57 AM

ThePrinceOfSaiyajins

Aug 29 2014, 04:06 PM

Sorry, but the 4 Poke-deities are not on that level. Arceus was nearly done in by a few hundred Pokemon using Thunder, and he's the strongest of the 4. I can assure you that wouldn't phase a low-level Z character.

Yeah because it's a kids movie and they need some way to win, by stated feats their strength is measured not how inconsistent the show is.

Even Darkrai seems more powerful than Arceus in the show.

And in the games level 100 Arceus can be beaten by any well trained, half decent Pokémon which obviously just wouldn't happen.
Game logic and anime logic are sketchy, the lore around their power is what's legit.


As for why Palkia might lose, probably find it hard to contend with speed where Giratina can just fade away and Dialga can slow down everything but itself and Arceus should be able to do all of the above if it feels like it.

Palkia can teleport away or teleport everyone else away but if it's fighting all of DBZ at once it's probably going to get overwhelmed.


The only thing lore doesn't give us really is durability but hax powers lowers the need for that.

Mild issue with your arguement about the lore, it falls pretty low on the totem pole.

Lore = statements < Feats < Plot < Prime Universe/Source material & Word of God. Since the source material for all Pokemon works comes back to the Games >/= Manga > Anime > etc. then the game actually takes presidence. Then any showing in the anime and expanded universe from there.

Didn't the anime come out before the manga? Maybe I'm misremembering or recalling some other series.

Pyrus

Aug 30 2014, 02:04 PM

TheACE

Aug 30 2014, 08:05 AM

Steve

Aug 30 2014, 07:57 AM

ThePrinceOfSaiyajins

Aug 29 2014, 04:06 PM

Sorry, but the 4 Poke-deities are not on that level. Arceus was nearly done in by a few hundred Pokemon using Thunder, and he's the strongest of the 4. I can assure you that wouldn't phase a low-level Z character.

Yeah because it's a kids movie and they need some way to win, by stated feats their strength is measured not how inconsistent the show is.

Even Darkrai seems more powerful than Arceus in the show.

And in the games level 100 Arceus can be beaten by any well trained, half decent Pokémon which obviously just wouldn't happen.
Game logic and anime logic are sketchy, the lore around their power is what's legit.


As for why Palkia might lose, probably find it hard to contend with speed where Giratina can just fade away and Dialga can slow down everything but itself and Arceus should be able to do all of the above if it feels like it.

Palkia can teleport away or teleport everyone else away but if it's fighting all of DBZ at once it's probably going to get overwhelmed.


The only thing lore doesn't give us really is durability but hax powers lowers the need for that.

Mild issue with your arguement about the lore, it falls pretty low on the totem pole.

Lore = statements < Feats < Plot < Prime Universe/Source material & Word of God. Since the source material for all Pokemon works comes back to the Games >/= Manga > Anime > etc. then the game actually takes presidence. Then any showing in the anime and expanded universe from there.

Didn't the anime come out before the manga? Maybe I'm misremembering or recalling some other series.

TheACE

Aug 30 2014, 08:05 AM

then the game actually takes presidence.

Then any showing in the anime and expanded universe from there.

Steve

Aug 31 2014, 09:18 AM

TheACE

Aug 30 2014, 08:05 AM

then the game actually takes presidence.

Then any showing in the anime and expanded universe from there.

Then the PokéDex info and lore from the games themselves is legit.

The anime is a standalone adaptation with basically no connections to the manga or games except Pokémon and some characters.

The game lore is the source of all info on things, anime is low tier due to it's inconsistency.

Steve

Aug 31 2014, 07:20 PM

The anime just isn't > lore it's inconsistent nonsense at the best of times.

Pikachu early on beats Brock's Onix, which makes little to no sense. And then Pikachu will go and get solo'd by utter crap Pokémon even water Pokémon in later series.

It's as legit to use as DBZ movies are, it might have started before the manga but it is non-canon compared to the games it is it's own separate thing based off the games.

So there are 3 worlds, essentially.

Game/lore, manga, anime.


Game/lore = Pokémon win easily

Manga = I don't have a clue

Anime = DBZ takes it


Games are by far when they're at their strongest, remember Cyrus aimed to use Dialga and/or Palkia to create a whole new world(which I think really meant either dimension or universe not a planet) so that's a massive feat. Which they definitely would have had the power to achieve were it not for the player.

You could say "But Dialga/Palkia get beat by regular Pokémon" but the game logic has to allow a win of course.
And like it or not Dialga has an absolute, DBZ can't argue against time except what's his face but no way is he overpowering a Deity that controls time itself.


The anime is low tier because it's kids stuff, Dialga could age people in to dust or make them in to fetus' if it wanted but that of course isn't happening in a kids show, it's power is time and everything that time affects it can affect.

I mention DIalga most because it has the best power to deal with speed, unless Arceus does just have every power it created but nothing says that so far as I know.